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guns for self defense
The closest I could come to home defense justification on the rifle would be a Winchester 9410. The scatter gun would be a modified remington 870 by one of the special ops companys that alter theese Like the wilson Combat. In reference to some of the less costly hand guns I have had so many defectives in the last few years I now try to get the best I can afford. I use a Kimber Custom Ultra CDP 2. My wife uses a smith Titanium .38+P with Laser grips. Milt sparks holsters, Cor-bon ammo.
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guns for self defense
I am not quite sure what you mean auto Vs Double action. You could probably debate longer than any of us will be around about SAO VS DAO Action Autos Vs Wheel guns. I this context though I am not sure I see the great difference. You could just as easily be pulling the trgger with the safety on with a shotgun. Practice and competence is the only real preperation for that, well other than experience which we hopefully never need but training, shooting and practice is critical. For concealed carry that would be another whole debate.
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guns for self defense
That's true but if you need more than one shot your probably in really deep kim shee. Most CCW type revolvers are 5 shot with medium frames being 6. A compact 45 gives 7. The extra shot to me is of no consequence in comparison to what I would be comfortable with. There generally speaking is no right or wrong, just better choices for each individual. I know some one posted about being able to miss with a scatter gun which might be true in the field but at 10'-20' with buckshot I know I would be very hard pressed to miss. Cant go wrong with the pump action or wheel guns for mechanical simplicity.
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guns for self defense
I certainly agree with your scenario. I do not ever recall keeping a shot gun for home defense and for me a rifle is completely out of the question. We all live in different places though so it may well be different for others. I certainly would not want a SA revolver for this purpose so if it is not clear I assume we are only talking autos. I guess I just dont see all the ways to mess up with a SA automatic. It really seams to me that by far the largest debate for the two is one of concealed carry. Regular carry is really moot in my opinion as you have zero element of suprise and is simply impractical for the majority in daily use. The real debate there for most is carrying "Cocked and locked" not screwing up when drawing. If that or mechanical function is the concern a DA revolver cures all the problems associated with the debate. Unless you are in law enforcement then certainly the capacity in this day and age is of paramount importance. For home defense I just dont see the confusion or margin for mess ups, when you draw you drop. If I sweep the house the safety is already off. S/A or D/A the first choice is simply what works best for you and what you are most comfortable with. It really is a timeless debate. The far greater concern to me is the law. To my knowledge Texas is the best state to live in for home defense.
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guns for self defense
Tracer, I can only speak for myself but I dont think any one was suggesting you are wrong for a rifle choice. We all have different situations and needs and comfort levels. If I did not have a NEED for a ccw I would not even own a hand gun. As much as I like the shooting sports, I personally have never really enjoyed them. That is just personal coice. I do appreciate good workmanship in any thing so I have my favorites but I see them pretty much just as a tool. That is just my perspective. Practice is so important I dont think we could possibly overstate it.
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guns for self defense
ACZ Did You get a smoker yet ? I am not sure I could completely agree with the above statement, although I respect your opinion. I guess I would never reccomend a gun to someone with zero experience in the first place that just wanted piece of mind. The problem I have with the shotgun scenario is that like you said they do get left loaded in the corner collecting dust. They dont get put away while the owners are at work or vacation and all too often not when the kids are playing around them. Sidearm lock boxes are nice for hand guns. I do however completely agree about the hand gun reccomendation.
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guns for self defense
AcZ , I do agree with you overall. The thought of someone buying a gun who has never used one and never will learn, for self defense makes me cringe a little. But I know it happens. Judgeing from all the people I see lined up at the counters after something like 9-11 buying sks and M15's or clones, Iassume it happens regularly or in a fairly large volume at times. I guess thats another debate entirely. Overall I agree with the Shotgun. Like you said, at 10-20' with buckshot your chances of connecting on that first shot are a whole lot better. not to mention people love to sweep the house with handguns sticking 3' out from their bodys like they are at the shooting range.
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guns for self defense
Just get one a couple of inches longer and you can avoid all the non sense and have it sent to a local FFL where your purchase would be the same as any other gun. I like The Wilson combat stuff but Mark had a site of some others that had a pretty awsome pattern on the 870.
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guns for self defense
DC Smith, hay pal, some of us actually have been to those places you listed, Instead of being some mouthy punk who thinks he's slicker than synthetic snot and knows a few names after watching CNN get out and earn a liveing, maybe then you will actually be able to pay for the services you use. When I enlisted with my best friend he was eventually sent there (beruit) Do you even know what country thats in ??. After a suicide bomber blew up the Marine barricks we never had enough of him to bury. So just because I am paranoid does NOT meant "they" are not out to get me. Heres a sobering statistic that was on a aol daily vote. 9% of the people poled consider themselves unpatriotic. Homedad, I was always under the impression that getting a shorter barrel required a class 3 firearms license or a letter from the BATF. Not really worth it to save a couple of inches.
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guns for self defense
In fact after reading your profile I can clearly see that you are just a TROLL. Anyone who would post that they use LSD as a part of their profile is just full of %^^%! . 
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guns for self defense
I agree to a point. It certainly pays to know the letter of the law in your home state as well. Personally I think Texas is one of the very few states that have it right. If its the perormance you want you can get it just as easily with out looking like you are just "waiting for the chance" by just swapping out the barrel on that stock 870 with a Wilson combat barrel or or one of the many others that offer a better group with buckshot but are of normal Deer hunting length.
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guns for self defense
DcSmith; Regrettably the fact that many better men gave their lives for your freedom is no joke.
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guns for self defense
BATF does issue letters to own and posses guns with shorter barrels. Most I deal with are antique trappers with 14" or 16" barrels. If I'm not mistaken it already has been pointed out that licenses can be obtained to posses them and many manufactures are now makeing them like the Wilson Combat 14" model 870, although the point escapes me personally.
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The BATF letters are only for documented and BATF approved antiques. I have never seen a scattergun qualify. A class 3 Firearms DEALERS license is required to posses theese shorter barrels as their primarly intent of manufactuture is for law inforcement. I would like to play with one but I would not want to own one. While I will not run from trouble I see no point in courting it either. On another note. ACZ you mentioned the brady law. Is it just my wishfull imagination or did I read that law is going to expire. I know I read that the assault weapons ban is to be lifted and is not going to be attempted to get re-instated. I guess the thing I fear the most is that all of the anti-gun legislation law pushers have gotten savy enough to keep their mouth shut untill they get elected. Homedad, you can still get that Wilson Combat with the 18 or 20" barrel, I just would think a regular 870 would be a whole LOT cheaper.
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Mark, You wont get any argument from me there. Like I said the 14" are for law enforcement but they do make a "average joe", model with 18" and20" barrels. "IF" I were to go the scattergun route I would choose a 870 with one of those Vang Comp barrels you pointed out before. I mean to tell you friend that was an IMPRESSIVE pattern. How did slugs come up ?? It would seem to rather make the scattergun argument for being less likely to miss a somewhat moot point. I would think Buckshot would be the pick of the day.
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guns for self defense
mark, This is a bit off topic. At one point I worked for the airlines for several years. One of the things we used to do was get a 747 halfway in a hanger so the SWAT team could practice. Seeing those guys hanging on the side of that bird was enough of a rush to skip coffe the next day. Then there was the Treasury boys and their short scatterguns. Believe me, when they are unloading Shrink wrapped bundles of new money out of the belley there is enough fire power around to put a third world country down. And they dont screw around.
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guns for self defense
F-350. In that scenario I would want the scattergun exclusively. CQCB being the key, I would take a 870, a 870 and a 870. Anyone can handle recoil when the adreniline is going. Reliable, simple function, big pattern.
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Non existant is right. What a dissgrace. Any one who thinks that there is no need need to worry about looseing our guns to big brother only has to review the statistics there. Nothing but good old tracking Mr. Average Joe Citizens activitys so we know right where to go first.
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guns for self defense
In general I would prefer My 45 and no shotgun. Limited to really close quarters (panic Room) and what anyone else could pick up and shoot I'd have to stay strictly with the scattergun. As it is I do not use anything other than a 45 for home defense or personal defense.
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guns for self defense
Those are some good choices chief. I used to Have a Ruger mini 30 that was a whole lotta fun and very reliable and accurate. I have been drawn to the Springfield armory line several times but cant get past the price tag and the fact that the Shooting teams, USA, military etc. all use .308 (nato) chambered on the remington 700 actions. I know that individuals use others as well but its tough to justify those BIG price tags on the SA line, Although I still like them !
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guns for self defense
I didnt think those were available any more. I regularly use Golden Sabre as they are great for the price but If you only need a box or two I prefer thr Hi power of the Cor-Bon ammo. If you can handle the 38+P they are great. Either way hollow points. To me the only debate about a defense load is should it be as heavy a HP as possible or as light a HP as possible in any give caliber. I often opt for the lighter grain for max velocity.
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This is takeing so long to load I started part 2 !
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guns for self defense
Billy, Most of the Brady law has already expired. It began to expire in 1998. Most of it has been replaced with NICS instant background checks. In Mi you can now get a CCW VERY easy. The new ones are like a drivers license and you can buy the same day anywhere in the state as the licenses are no longer issued by individual police depts with all of the varying hodge poge rules from county to county. I have the older type where you actually had to justify a CCW so untill next year I still have to go get a purchase permit but I can do it in one day. If your laws are different raise heck when you vote, .
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guns for self defense
Yup, its really a continuation of it but the Brady law proper ( 3 day wait) is dead. Thank god !
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guns for self defense
Cutter, production began in 1979 on your trade. Trade ins are to say the least usually very dissapointing as the dealer must be able to profit from selling your trade in. It is far more likely that what you get for a trade in will be predicated by how much you are spending more so than the actual value of the gun..... to some extent. You can try going to a local book store and looking up the value but take this with a grain of salt as most usually do not sell at those prices. For a trade in divide it in half  Williams gunsight has a trade in valur book if anyone has one.
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06-26-2003, 15:09 
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